Under Preferences > Publishing you find and option to select the Preferred Archive Type. Does this have any effect on anything? From among the archive templates, Entry archives have (undocumented) checkmarks from which you select one to define the default permalinks. So, Preferred Archive Type seems to be superfluous, or not?
Reported on Movable Type 4.2
Your question seems to be based on an assumption that permalinks will always go to the "Entry" archive mapping, and that there will only be one of those. Both of those assumptions are wrong.
The blog config setting only defines what archive type (eg. Entry) is the default to be linked, but not which mapping of that type. Careful not to confuse "default" with "the only one available;" they may coincide, but they're not the same thing. Arguably, most people only have one entry mapping, but keep in mind that per-entry comment feeds are "Entry" templates, which is just one way you might end up with multiples.
That's not accurate. The checkmark specifies which mapping is preferred for that template only, if the template has multiple mappings of a given type. This applies to any archive template, so can't specify a default since it may occur multiple times.
So:
[1] I had it in my head that it didn't even appear until needed, but seem to be wrong. That may have changed from a previous version. There are some usability issues with this bit of interface that are already known, but feel free to file bugs.
Thanks for the detailed reply. While you're justifying the existence of the config setting, I think you also give the reasons why it stands in the way.
Entry archives are the only archives equipped with checkmarks. Entry listing archives are not. If they were, the config setting would not be needed at all, at least from a usabilty perspective.
The config setting mixes apples with oranges. It lists Entry in the sense of Entry archive template, and then it lists several Entry listing mappings, regardless of whether or not I have actually defined them or not.
A checkmark on a mapping is a clear enough setting, and there is no need to have another "yes, and I really mean it" config setting. A better solution would be to discard checkmarks on the archive template mappings, and instead populate the drop-down list of the config setting with the mappings of both Entry templates and Entry listing templates. But I know talk is cheap.
No, they're not, though this loops back to my footnote. The checkmark also occurs on other archive types, if they have more than one mapping of a given type, as I already stated. Here, have a screenshot.
Why the unchecked checkbox is always visible on Entry archives, I couldn't tell you, possibly a bug.
Wrong again. The list is based off what is available in your templates. You're continuing to base your comments off what's been presented to you rather than what is actually happening underneath to show you that.
Start clean: Create a test blog, delete all the archive templates, and see how these things develop. Add the templates back in, with no mappings, and see that you're offered nothing in blog settings. Then add mappings, reloading the prefs page between. Entry doesn't become available until you both create an Entry archive template and a mapping for it.
You are still misunderstanding what those are for. Your suggestion might cover the permalink setting, but it does nothing to address the fact that all templates can have multiple mappings. How do you propose that your single drop-down tells each of those which mapping they prefer when linked to?
As a sidenote, I'm not "justifying the existence" of anything. I'm telling you how the system works, right now. If you're trying to make some sort of case for an actual change to the application, the General topic area isn't really the best place to do it, and you should have made that clearer up front.
"A better solution would be to discard checkmarks on the archive template mappings, and instead populate the drop-down list of the config setting with the mappings of both Entry templates and Entry listing templates."
Sounds really good... did you worked on this? Greetings
When I opened this topic, I was not trying to make the case for a change of the interface, but now I'll do. I opened this topic because I didn't fully understand why the options are presented as they are presently. But one thing is clear: they're not clear.
To answer this topic's question, the Preferred Archive setting is not obsolete, because:
1. when the link to an Entry should be based on an Entry mapping, Movable Type needs to know that Entry is the preferred archive type, in addition to knowing which of its mappings is preferred.
2. when the link to an Entry should be based on an Entry Listing mapping, Movable Type wants you to select the mapping directly from the drop-down list of the Preferred Archive setting.
In a bureaucratic environment I would now shut up and go away, because this is how "the system works, right now", irrespective of logic. I'll stay for now to show why The Preferred Archive setting could be discarded, if the programming behind the interface would allow for it.
That's wrong indeed - the reason I wrote this is because this topic is focused on selecting a mapping to create links to archived Entries. I therefore neglected Page archives. Page archives are equipped with checkboxes, too. However, mappings on an Entry Listing template do not have checkboxes next to it. Your screenshot does not reveal which archive type you created mappings for. I went through some iterations of selecting a Preferred Archive and creating/deleting mappings; the result: checkboxes never appear on mappings of an Entry Listing template.
I overlooked that the list updates with the given Entry Listing mappings. Thanks for pointing that out. This probably also explains why no checkboxes appear on the mappings themselves.
I am not proposing that the drop-down list should determine what the preferred mapping for each template is, and I never assumed that archives cannot have multiple mappings. If the drop-down list is to be used, then this is what I propose: It should list mappings of both Entry and Entry Listing. Only one mapping can be the preferred one for creating links to Entries (otherwise it would not be the preferred one), and a selected mapping automatically (based on logic) implies the preferred archive type. That is why I ask:
Why are Entry mappings not listed in the drop-down list, just like Entry Listing mappings are, but instead given checkboxes? I could also ask: Why are Entry Listing mappings not given checkboxes, just like Entry mappings?
Wrong. The Preferred Archive setting offers the archive of type Entry, and then goes on to list Entry Listing mappings that have been created. The Preferred Archive setting is a mix of preferred archive type setting and preferred template mapping setting. That causes my confusion.
When you have multiple mappings for Entry, the drop-down list still only shows Entry. I have two Entry templates with one mapping each. The checkbox can be checked on one or on the other, but not on both. Good. With either checkmark in place, the question which archive type I prefer is answered. Entry! No Preferred Archive setting necessary! Unless Movable Type needs to have one mapping specified for each template type, in addition to knowing which mapping shall be used to create links to Entries. If that's the case, it's reflected nowhere in the interface.
Is the purpose of the checkboxes different from the purpose of the Preferred Archive setting? Yes. Should it be? No. An ideal interface would have one checkmark for one of the Page mappings, and another checkmark on one of the mappings belonging to Entry and Entry Listing. Alternatively, discard the checkmarks on Entry and Entry Listing mappings (which actually don't show up for the latter) in favor of listing those mappings in the drop-down list.
Do I misunderstand something?
That's true. Except I don't need to. You can't create monthly mappings for anything other than an Entry Listing template. Please actually familiarize yourself with what you're complaining about before claiming it's wrong. To return to one of your original questions: "Does this have any effect on anything?" Yes, it does, which would have been shown by simply changing the setting and rebuilding. Did you?
Then you did something wrong.
As to the rest, I have clients and can't spend any more time on this. Make your case to mtos-dev, or in the bug tracker. Maybe someone else can put the words together in a different order, or something. While the interface details may need work, I see no issue with these settings remaining separate.
What do you think a custom path is for? To hinder me from doing that?
What do you think I do on this forum, other than familiarizing myself with the tools? Why are you here, besides misconstruing what I assume, know and claim, and venturing to say what I should do?
I do as outlined.
I tested this by again creating mappings on an Entry Listing. This time I created mappings of the same type, i.e. one Monthly mapping of some sort, and then another Monthly mapping of some sort. Only then did checkboxes appear, and only on those mappings of the same type, not on the others.
I am not wrong. Archive mappings are buggy, and not implementend with stringent logic. This thread helped me to discover that.
What rest? Oh, that rest. Well you're not the first to run away from logic. Your clients? You sure did let them wait to amend your last comment by softening your unearned, dogmatic, teacher-language.
Alex, I'm not running away from anything. I'm bored, and have said everything I have to say on this so far, in several ways. I've actually asked others to comment here, repeatedly, to no effect. Hope you have better luck with the Fogbugz case.
And yes, I edit my comments—this is probably the third time for this one ZOMG—but don't touch them after they've already been responded to. It's cute that you silently re-categorized the entry right around the same time as leveling that little insinuation, though. Putting it here in the first place next time will avoid a lot of confusion.
Filed as inquiry 98707.
The Preferred Archive Setting is redundant from a user interface point of view, because a checked checkbox logically implies the preferred archive type. Working only with checkboxes on mappings would suffice. This would require that checkboxes always appear for every mapping that is created.
Currently, checkboxes appear on Entry Listing mappings only if another mapping of the same type has been added, i.e. Monthly and another Monthly, or Yearly, and another Yearly. The idea is that the preferred archive type ought to be choosen in the preferences, while the mapping ought to selected by checkmarking it. I understand that. But again, that would be redundant if checkboxes or more aptly, radio buttons, were consistently enabled for mappings.
The Preferred Archive setting confused me, because I didn't realize why checkboxes appeared for mappings in Entry archive templates, while none appared on mappings in Entry Listing templates. Admittedly, they do when you have more than one mapping of the same type, but when none is present, selecting an item from the Preferred Archive Setting drop-down list is equivalent to defining a mapping directly (versus the archive type).
I think that hiding the checkboxes in this case doesn't help usability, but ambiguity. Using radiobuttons on all mappings instead would make The Preferred Archive setting redundant.
Also, a note above of below the mappings would help to clarify what the checkmarks do.
Do you propose that your single drop-down tells each of those which mapping they prefer when linked to?
Checkboxes appear on Entry Listing mappings only if another mapping of the same type has been added, i.e. Monthly and another Monthly, or Yearly, and another Yearly. The idea is that the preferred archive type ought to be choosen in the preferences, while the mapping ought to selected by checkmarking it. I understand that.
Don 2 songs